Empathic Disguises - Vampires, Lycanthropes and Ravagers

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:15 pm

Was perusing the Ravager's entry in the Dark Races supplement the other day when my eye fell on the rules for "seeing through" the creature's empathic disguise. I was wondering if these rules should also be applied in respect of the similar disguises used by Bloodkin Vampires and the sundry assorted Werebeasts in the main book. I know the latter can have their camouflage broken by silver but possibly a highly skilled empath could see their true nature as well?

Conceivably this is a non-issue because it's all covered by the Empath Sourcebook? (Which I don't have of course).

Post by **Morthrai** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:08 pm

Well, if this hasn't been covered in the new edition already then I guess we'd better have a crack at it

Good thinking there mate.

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:14 pm

Morthrai wrote:Well, if this hasn't been covered in the new edition already then I guess we'd better have a crack at it Good thinking there mate.

These things often occur to me when I'm bored at work

. It just struck me as an area where you could maybe have a standardised set of rules, if some haven't been introduced already.

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:27 pm

I don't have dark races, how do the rules of 'seeing through' work?

Post by **Morthrai** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:22 pm

Not having the book available (using a public computer here) I don't have the details, but I think it is something like this: an empath can try to see a disguised Dark Minion's true appearance through a high-difficulty EMP test. I think that might also be a good way to introduce a starting character, their empathy suddenly kicks in and they see a disguised Darkling's true form without even trying

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:28 pm

Pure empathy? Sounds interesting. Maybe this could be combined with some of the empathic awareness skills form the empathic source book.

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:24 pm

I think the rules are pretty much as Lee described but there may be provision for an empath to "accidentally" notice a disguised Ravager i.e. without any conscious effort on the empath's part.

I'll have a look in the book when I get home.

anthraxus · Post by **anthraxus** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:31 pm

Basically how it works is that the first time that an empath looks at a Ravager, they automatically make a Difficult EMP test. If it is a stage 1-3 (I think) they get a momentary glimpse through the disguise. Stage 4-5 prevents them from ever seeing that Ravager's disguise ever again. Stage 6 makes them immune to the disguise ability of all Ravagers forever.

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:32 pm

Permanent with stage six? Hmm sounds quite powerful. But maybe that's not that easy concidering that they only can use the Atribute with no skill...
Thank you very much for posting the rule.

anthraxus · Post by **anthraxus** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:06 am

Ok, the exact wording of the illusion rule:

"Each time a ravager is viewed by a nonempathic human, a Difficult test of the viewer's Willpower is made to detemine if the viewer penetrates the illusion. If the test is unseccessful, the viewer sees the creature as human. If successful, the viewer catches a momentary glimps of the creature as it really is. An outstanding success means that the viewer sees through the illusion permanently.

Empathic characters may also spot a ravager. This can be achieved by a successful Human Empathy task.

Basic Success merely allows the character to have a bad feeling about the creature, despite its very human appearance. Stage Two means the character feels very frightened by the person but is unsure why. Stage Three allows the character the certain knowledge that the ravager isn't human, despite appearances to the contrary. Stage Four allows the character to catch a glimpse of the ravager as it really is. Stage Five is the same as Stage Four, but for 1D10 hours. Stage Six means the character not only sees through the ravager's illusion permanently, but will never be fooled by any other ravager."

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:44 am

Thanks to Anthraxus for setting out the rule in its entirety.

I'm not convinced by non-empaths being able to spot a Ravager with a Willpower test. What about a simple characteristic test against EMP? Quite difficult to do but that strikes me as appropriate.

I'd agree that the benefits of an empath's stage 6 success are over generous. Could be amended so that empath will never be fooled by just the individual Ravager they've detected, or possibly the detection effect only lasts a few days?

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:14 pm

So, does anyone think the "Ravager rule" should be applied to other empathically disguised minions?

I'd be surprised if there isn't anything on this in the Empath sourcebook. Could anyone enlighten us as to whether that's the case?

anthraxus · Post by **anthraxus** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:02 pm

I don't have the 1st edition Empathic Sourcebook, but in the reprints in the 2.5 version there is nothing mentioned.

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't. I'll have to look up the Bloodkin when I get home and see if they have their own version of the Illusion rule.

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:51 pm

No it is not in the empathic source book. There are hardly any rules at all. Just new...er...spells and some background for the schools.

Thanks a lot for posting the rule. I won't use the non-empathic (which would also give the empathy users two rolles) rule. It is too wierd. But I think that a roll without Human empathy can be made.

fenlason · Post by **fenlason** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:07 pm

Other darklings use a form of Project Thought/Fear for their illusions. One could argue that Ravagers have a special form of project thought and that peircing the illusion is different to accomplish. One can play all this as an opposed Project Throught by the darkling -- in which case Willpower is the primary means of seeing through the illusion (1st Ed).

Regarding non-empathic humans, I would think that they would have the same result as the Stage 1 success -- unsettling. Outstanding Success means that the veil is pierced for that critter permanently. Large extremes, but non-empaths need some protection.

As a GM I would play anyone with Foreboding gets a negative vibe automatically - like the non-empath. Since the illusion is empathic, empaths are otherwise totally susceptible. The GM would roll a Foreboding attempt, if required. I would only allow the attempt when the human is very near or in physical contact with the Ravager. Success in an actual Foreboding attempt gives a -1 Difficulty (Difficult -> Average, etc.) with Outstanding Success giving -2. Gives a bad feeling unless you have to deal with it, then a shot at spotting or understanding how Ravager illusion works. This is of course possible with the 2x Power Level for Outstanding Success once the difficulty is easy enough.

But I would not use EMP by itself for detection by straight empaths, neuropaths, and sorcerers. I would use Human Empathy. Attempting to establish an empathic link with a Darkling should expose the Darkling unless it were sufficiently powerful enough. Mystics and psionics use the Empathic Sourcebook skills:

Psionic Scan (Psionics)
Read Aura (Mystics)

I am interested in thoughts on this as I am in the middle of doing empathics for 3rd ed.

Thanks!

Norm