New or Old Products

[Marcus Bone]

Hi All,

I wanted to start some discussion on the future products we are planning on producing for Dark Conspiracy. What do you all want to see?

Marcus Bone

[R.A.G.G.]

That is a rather wide open question.

I, or rather we, would like to see all the 1st and 2nd edition books re-released and perhaps the rest of the Sin City setting. At the same time we are looking forward to new adventures and settings with hopes that all the older products will be either updated to 3rd edition or usable with 3rd edition.

We would like to have some of the material from DEMONGROUND incorporated into the new products, especially any information on settings, both fictional (like Sin City) and based in reality.

Would it be possible to provide a list of ideas or products you are working on?

[Morthrai]

I have to say Kevin has a good point. If we knew what is definitely in the pipeline, it would be easier to make suggestions as to what else we'd like to see. Don't know what the position is with regard to old Demonground material (Mike?) but it would be nice to tie that in officially if we could

[fenlason]

It seems to me that the short term goal is to get an economically viable Core Rulebook on the streets. Note the words economically viable. I did not buy the 2ed books because they were a rehash of the 1ed. I believe that most people had the same impression. The concept of the small format was new, but the execution just wasn't there. I, like, so many others waited patiently for a constant parade of material supporting the game system. At that time, I knew what I wanted to see, but I had no input into the development process, and what came out I wasn't all that interested in (Sin City aside -- btw probably cannot use that name anymore).

Marcus is giving us an opportunity that "he-who-is-to-be-unnamed" never gave the DC community. He is soliciting inputs into what we would like to see, but most importantly, what we would be willing to buy. To that end here is my list (bolded):

Pick a city -- City Book: not a ficticious city, but a real metroplex
Adventures introducing Dark Adversaries (dark lords in their own right)
Corporation Books -- if the future is run by the corps, who are they and what do they do?
Darktek -- darktek expansion along a given tek line. The Darktek book details a lot of lines.

I would like to see a Dark Albion, a 400+ sourcebook on the UK of Dark Conspiracy <hint-hint Lee>

I would like to see the Empathic Disciplines to be rolled into the Career System to make empathic character generation compatible with the core rulebook. Several Empathic Sourcebooks should expand each of the disciplines with gudelines and suggestions on incorporating them into campaigns.

An Advanced Rule system that provides detailed rules for the rule lawyer that can be layered over a basic Quick Play system.

The 1ed weapon lists are dated and not very innovative. Advanced Combat Weapons that support both the Quick Play and Advanced Play rules.

It has been shown that adventures do not sell very well. (WoC are recycling their successful and venerable worlds in d20). However, I would like to see Adventures as examples of how to place dark adversaries into a campaign.

From the website I would like to see something that was first done in Demonground, that is, the Hook/Plot Combo. Where the hook sounds like a National Enquirer headline, while the plot is far more sinister.

I could probably list things all day. Anybody else have anything?

Norm
"Trample the weak, hurtle the dead" -- Dirk Mannheim speaking of the new Roller Ball League.

[Marcus Bone]

It has been shown that adventures do not sell very well. (WoC are recycling their successful and venerable worlds in d20). However, I would like to see Adventures as examples of how to place dark adversaries into a campaign.

Hey Norm,

Sorry to say, but I disagree with you on this point. Adventures do sell well; they just have to pique the interest of the Referee.

A number of D20 companies do quite well with their adventure lines, and Chaosium (the creators of Call of Cthulhu) survives by producing supplements and campaigns.

I personally see room for a number of short to medium (4 to 10 session) length campaigns being available for DC, as these will not only highlight the system in action, but will allow the players to immerse themselves into the DC world.

Anyway, this is a great thread, and I'd love to hear more of your or, indeed, any reader's thoughts on the subject.

Marcus

[Fiannaidhe]

How about miniatures for tabletop gaming?

No matter what game my current game group plays, they like to have figures on the table to help them see combat sequences. Personally, I don't see a need for it, but others would disagree with me.

[Marcus Bone]

How about miniatures for tabletop gaming?

This is a serious consideration for us, however, it takes a whole new level of skill and resources to produce a dedicated miniatures line. Nevertheless, we are looking at 'recommending' miniatures from existing lines or producers in the near future, as I agree that DC lends itself to tabletop maps, etc. for combat.

Cheers,

Marcus

[Morthrai]

we are looking at 'recommending' miniatures from existing lines or producers in the near future, as I agree that DC lends itself to tabletop maps, etc. for combat.

My personal first recommendation for anyone looking for suitable figures would have to be Ground Zero Games, here in the UK. A couple of years ago I spent roughly fifty pounds on some of their Street Level range after seeing their stand at Dragonmeet the previous December. Very nicely made, true 25mm scale, resonable prices and a wide range. They even do a range of 'Greys' and some 'Egyptian Aliens' (no resemblance to Stargate intended here )

Check here: http://www.gtns.co.uk/store1/commerce.cgi

[Morthrai]

My initial thoughts on Norm's Big List O'Stuff:

Obviously, the core book has to be done. It is going to be the rock upon which everything else will stand, no matter if it is new material or re-issues.

A fully developed Metroplex book, I like the sound of that.
As for Dark Adversaries and Corporations, my feeling would be to do a sourcebook with somewhere between 6 to 12 examples of each, in detail. A selection box if you will

More Darktek - yes please! One of the areas that defines what the game is about.

Norm my good buddy, four HUNDRED pages of the Republic? Everything I have ever done for the setting has already been published in Demonground, and as a lot of it is directly derived from several other sources I'm pretty sure IP issues would arise...unless of course I went back through the entire thing and changed several parts I guess what I am saying is that I'm happy with the way it is, and to make it copyright-proof I'd need to change it so much that it wouldn't be the same. It's either leave it alone or replace it with something totally new.

Separate empathic sourcebooks for each different discipline? It's not a bad idea but is there enough to fill each book I wonder. Maybe one big book would be enough.

Advanced Rules to layer over the basic quick-play thing, I like this too.

I definitely agree on the need for updated and more advanced Weapons Listings.

Adventures I think are necessary to any system. What is needed is to make them of at least as good quality as (for example) Chaosium's C of C stuff, or better. Let's remember, and bear in mind that both Marcus and I love that system too, some of the material they did a few years back wasn't too hot and it still sold shedloads

As for the final item, the Hook & Plot Combo, better known to us DC grognards as Tabloids. Always one of the best things about DC, the use of cheapo tacky screamsheet headlines as actual adventure hooks The great Lester W Smith himself also worked on TSR's Amazing Engine series including the one called simply 'TABLOID!' which is one of the non-DC books that EVERY DC referee should never be without IMNSHO

More later!

[anthraxus]

I could see the use of at least some expanded material on each of the major nations/continents. I don't know that we would need an entire book on each one, but region books would be highly useful.

Books on the major metroplexes (New Boswash, Chiwaulkee, the Gold Coast, etc.) would be monstrously useful.

More tabloids and Darktek are always cool, and the Adversaries series would be an interesting addition.

Additional equipment books, not just weapons, but all types of equipment would be popular as well, I believe.

Personally, I very seldom use modules and adventures unless they are extremely generic or I want one to start a campaign with as, in my experience, most published adventures become increasingly difficult to incorporate into an existing campaign. Of course, I say this owning at least fourty different published adventures for various game systems. I think the stronger approach than selling single adventures is something similar to the Tales of Terror (I think that was what it was called) supplements for CoC. Six to eight small open framework adventures with notes on how they could interconnect if desired, but can still be run independantly if needed.

[Morthrai]

I think the stronger approach than selling single adventures is something similar to the Tales of Terror (I think that was what it was called) supplements for CoC. Six to eight small open framework adventures with notes on how they could interconnect if desired, but can still be run independantly if needed.

I agree, the Tales of Terror style is very good, simple but effective. Of course, DC does have the tabloid format of adventure seed but ToT just presents the minimum information required, no messing about

[rrank5377]

My opinion on the entire thing is that first concentrate on the core book. Don't try to cram too much into it, leave some room to expand on and don't make one section dominate the book. For instance, in the Second edition Player's Handbook (Ultimate edition), 160 pages of it was dedicated to equipment. The book itself was "only" 400 pages! Over 25% of the book was simply a catalogue. While I agree that equipment is a very important aspect of the game, I like the approach that the first edition took: use a sourcebook.

Another note on the core book is to have an intriguing introductory adventure. Very few games have an intriguing introductory adventure. Most aren't even good enough to spur on any creative thought...it seems that so many companies just use an introductory adventure to fill 2-3 pages instead of spur on the GM to run it and create something for the game.

What would I like to see in future lines? Well, if you couldn't tell from above, I'm definitely interested in published adventure modules. For instance, I loved the New Orleans module. To this day, the Dark tunnels in it are used in many of my campaigns. They don't all have to be 80 page single adventures, that may be a little overkill for your average gamer, but even something like One Shots for Unknown Armies, where it was a book of 4-5 adventures in the same 80 pages.

I also want to see a locale fleshed out. One (of the few) things I liked about the old WoD books was the "by Night" series, such as Milwaukee by Night, etc. Those had some good, fleshed out areas and adventure seeds.

Equipment books are always welcome, but the main ones that I would like to see are adventure sourcebooks and locales.

One other thought, maybe whip something up on Demongrounds? I always felt that the main book was a little lacking on that subject, but it was never fully fleshed out. Maybe one book spelling out various types of demonground, such as Urban, Rural, Forest, Mountain, Subterranian...man, I'm starting to get ideas here.

[Zvezda]

The game MUST be playable with one book! The last edition where you where forced to buy two books before you could start playing was crap! No one I know bought the books because of that! The few people already owning DC (like me) where the only ones to buy them to support the game.

Weapons, Vehicles and other Equipment are appreciated by the players. While I as a GM like new minions, adventures and non-US surcebooks.

No one should ever repeat the mistake of giving real life stats for computers! Never ever again! That is so ridiculus. DC's best computers are worse than an average cellphone.

[Morthrai]

The game MUST be playable with one book!

Agreed 100%. Everything to play a session has to be in the core rulebook.

No one should ever repeat the mistake of giving real life stats for computers! Never ever again!

I think that's something that was kind of a habit in GDW's roleplaying game history. I remember the shipboard computers in the original Traveller for example, they literally weighed tons and some of them were even capable of running more than one program at once

[Linden]

No one should ever repeat the mistake of giving real life stats for computers! Never ever again! That is so ridiculus. DC's best computers are worse than an average cellphone.

That probably was a mistake but...given the economically depressed milieu in which DC takes place might it be conceivable that computers become so expensive that the best models that characters can get hold of are reconditioned 486s from the mid 1990s? (with nice big chunky monitors of course).