Security Guards to get Police Powers

[Linden]

Looks like the world of Robocop with its privatised police has got a little bit closer, in Britain anyway.

[Zvezda]

Confiscating your property seems a bit strange as a right for a private security force.

[Linden]

A British copper's perspective on the increased privatisation of UK police forces. Suffice to say he isn't in favour. An interesting article for a number of reasons but from a DC perspective the theme of an encroaching privatised police state strikes a chord.

[Morthrai]

In what amounts to almost a reversal of security guards gaining police powers, the Greek Police are now available for hire at hourly reasonable rates.
(insert "even cheaper than usual bribery rates" joke here)

[Linden]

I suspect we're going to see a lot more of that sort of thing: In a similar vein and a bit closer to home I've heard that West Mercia police have just started charging for covering the Hereford May Fair. I think UK police forces have always charged for their presence at football matches though?

[Morthrai]

I think UK police forces have always charged for their presence at football matches though?

Certainly for a long time they have. Can't help thinking the clubs could afford more than enough security of their own if they didn't pay star players an average person's annual salary per week...

[Linden]

Certainly for a long time they have. Can't help thinking the clubs could afford more than enough security of their own if they didn't pay star players an average person's annual salary per week...

In the DC milieu I can see the policing of sporting events being taken over by corporate security. As it seems to be accepted that sports will be more violent (a la Rollerball and those stories that were such a mainstay of early 2000AD) I'd imagine the policing of it to be quite heavy handed so as to stop the fans getting too inflamed. Plenty of corporate cops with easy access to riot gear.

Given Lee's comments about the amount of money sloshing around in English football at the moment it occurs to me that the world of sport could be an interesting setting for a scenario or two. The way things are at the moment in the UK there's already a few DC elements in the game e.g. clubs being bought by shady Gnome types or Sovereign Wealth funds. What is Man Utd if not a corporation with a global brand? One could even argue that the "golden triangle" in Cheshire with its footballer's mansions is a proto-Dreamlands. Post Greater Depression Rooney and Co will have the place fenced off, only emerging from their corporate bubble to drive their Ford-Revlon Elites to training sessions and fixtures.

[Morthrai]

Oh look, even more police budget cuts and this time it's right in the area where Linden and myself live!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-he ... r-18517904

[Zvezda]

Interesting to read a coppers thoughts about privatising the police. I think one indicator of a failing state is the pirvatisation of it's legitimit force like the military (as seen in Afganistan were more mercenaries are active than British soldiers) and the police. I have serious doubts that private police will behave considerably better than let's say Blackwater. The good thing is that will not be much of a problem. With no police left in the area the private police will have to investigate against it self.
That said I think sports in DC are an interesting topic as well. And indeed a good setting for a scenario.
A different problem is the problem of pirvate prisons. The people who run these prisons will always have full prisons in their interests. The more prisoners the better.

[Linden]

Oh look, even more police budget cuts and this time it's right in the area where Linden and myself live!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-he ... r-18517904

Ay yes, shared services, the universal panacea for all short of cash public organisations. In practice they tend to deliver rather less than promised. I can certainly think of a few local authorities where such partnerships have been an unmitigated disaster with any savings being swallowed up on inflated fees for the consultants brought in to set them up and salaries for the executives who are going to run them. I'd even go so far to adopt Zvezda's argument that these joint partnerships are another symptom of the failing state.

[Zvezda]

I am not arguing that the Greek Syriza Party is something like the SPP, in fact I don't know anything about Greek policies. In fact, I don't see why anybody in Greece should keep voting for the parties responsible for the crisis, but from a DC perspective this is very interesting. The more the state errodes the easier it appears for new parties to gain ground.
It is interesting that about 50% of the Greek Police Force voteted for the Neo-Nazis in the last two elections. They move exactly in the opposite direction of the general population. A very good starting point for a civil war I suppose. It looks as if we are closer to uncontrolled zones than we actually like. In central Europe I mean.

What do you generally think about the Police in DC?
In our campaign policeforce consists of two different kind of Officers. Grass Eaters, who accept a bribe when offerd and Meat Eaters who activly are involved in criminal activites like extortion and kidnapping and contract killings. Somewhat like the real life RUC.

[Linden]

What do you generally think about the Police in DC?
In our campaign policeforce consists of two different kind of Officers. Grass Eaters, who accept a bribe when offerd and Meat Eaters who activly are involved in criminal activites like extortion and kidnapping and contract killings.

I think that distinction was drawn during the 1970s investigations into NYPD corruption (as seen in the films Serpico and Prince of the City). I'm sure not all of them were at it, just the same as on this side of the pond not all detectives in the Met were on the take when Sir Robert Mark took over and started to clean house. I think police corruption could be a good hook or background for scenarios, and there's plenty of real life material to draw from, but I think I'd try for a more balanced depiction of officers. What about the last good cop left in a dirty town?

[Zvezda]

No, that is not the idea of it. The cops, as persons are not evil. Not in the dark minion way. They are not even really evil in a moral way. I just don’t leave them the chance to survive on their salary. Rent, taxes, fuel prices. Everything. I take plenty of inspiration from the past. The 20s and 60s are a very good source for totally corrupt and murderous western police forces. There should of course be the occasional good cop. And here again corruption is not a bad thing as such. More than once the police left the PCs alone when the officers believed that law is not necessarily justice. If you take a look at the average Police TV show (or even the good ones like Life on Mars) the good guys will always use “necessary evil” like kidnapping, planting of evidence, torture…and so on for the greater good and the audience will still look at them as heroes for banging the paedophile’s head against the cell floor for justice.

Generally however, I don’t believe that a too well balanced description would work. Just recently there was a case of neo-nazi terrorists killing like a dozen people in Germany. Most of them were working class migrants. So the police came up with the solution that all these killings, in most the same weapon was used, must be the work of the Turkish Mob. From this perspective they worked on the case putting immense pressure on the victims’ families by trying to link their dead fathers and brothers to the mafia. The case was then solved by accident and the government apologized to the families and paid them several thousand Euros in compensation. What’s that got to do with DC? A lot in my opinion. If the Police is not corrupt beyond recognition the minions would have a very hard time. Whenever the victim of a Ravager is found, the cops should instantly suspect “those Caribbeans with their voodoo” and arrest the nearest prole. If they would look to closely they would one day or the other find out about all those monsters lurking in the shadows. The other reason why I don’t think a balanced view would work to well is that the dark would in the first place try to corrupt the mighty and powerful along with their police. Those who are capable of doing magic and have really impressive means of intimidation should (in the DC setting) do what they can to undermine the police, and by now they should have some success with that. Otherwise they would be in mortal danger.

The private police force is a different thing. Many don’t really care or know what their duties, rights and responsibilities are. They do as they are told, less if possible. Most should have an EDU rating of 2* – 4 (like the regular police) and be not too interested in the law as an abstract construct. It is difficult to tell if they really are corrupt in the old way. After all, they are owned and paid by a company. If they are more loyal to their employer than to the public, is that corruption?

It’s a bleak view of law and order in the near future but it seems to be the most plausible for DC. I mean the game is about having fun and the cinematic approach almost always beats the realistic. But I really like involving non-supernatural horror elements into the game.

*it is ridiculous that the PC Booster Kit bans proles form the military and the police.

[Linden]

Quite a bleak view you've got there but I can see how you've reasoned it out. I don't know if you've heard of him, but there's a British novelist/TV writer called G F Newman who has a very jaundiced view of the police as an institution and it more or less accords with the one you've presented (minus the supernatural stuff). He wrote an excellent TV series back in the late seventies called Law and Order (nothing to do with the US version although Newman thinks Wolf stole the name and basic cops and lawyers format) which I'd suggest is required viewing if corrupt police are going to play a major part in any rpg campaign. It's shot like a documentary with what were then largely unknown actors, and treats bribes, false confessions and planting evidence as utterly routine.

There's also Red Riding a rather more stylised look at British 70s police corruption with an occult sensibility and exploring the links between bent cops and business. For my money it's not as good as Law and Order, but still well worth a look for the relentlessly gloomy atmosphere and some excellent perfomances from an ensemble cast of well known British TV faces plus a few up and coming young actors.

Quite a good article comparing the two here, although mostly concentrating on Law and Order.

[Zvezda]

Thank you very much! Nice suggestions. I know it is rather off topic now but you pointed out one of my biggest weaknesses in GMing. I tend to paint things too black and too hopeless. I always viewed DC as some kind of antithesis to CP2020 were the PCs could beat the evil corporations with guns, tv and the truth while in DC telling the truth would send them straight to the asylum. Gaming however is about fun. And winning is fun. I always have great difficulties granting the PCs a big success agains a really powerful enemy. Any good hinds on this? Besides blowing his base up with a stolen nuke...