initiative...

[Braxen]

Has anyone changed the way initiative is being done?

Apparently, the idea of being mauled/gored/shot/or just being used as a chew toy by some large salivating critter from a lovecraft novel, with an initiative of 5 or 6, while they are sitting at 3 in order to get the chance to go has long been the subject of much lamenting and debate.

More of the hardcore players just hang back and laugh at the newbies as the look of horror crosses their faces as the above mentioned things transpire for 3 phases. One of the older players just smiled and said "Be glad he isnt using shotgun toting gang members....savage 311's in close range.....nasty, very nasty"

I have been debating about doing something similar to the new Warhammer Roleplay ( havent worked the kinks out yet) where a player could move and shoot, shoot twice or do a full move or action would require a full round (6 seconds) to complete. Of course this also goes for the critters and bad guys as well.

My initial thinking is that any type of move like action (changing clips, grabbing grenade, standing up from prone, etc) would count as the players move for the round. I was going to do something along the lines of a d20+Agility for initiative. Initiative would be rolled each round ( I dont like cyclical initiatives).

Use of Empathic abilities would require a full action. In my mind this would keep things in balance.

Ideas/comments/suggestions?

[Morthrai]

Ah yes, once again the Initiative issue raises its ugly head

There have been several attempts to resolve the 'Bad guys on 6' thing over the years. The guy who introduced me to DC in the first place decided to totally drop the combat system and has used the Cyberpunk 2020 system ever since. A little extreme I feel but damn, he's a good GM

The replacement Init system I have used with some success was originally published in one of Mike LaBossiere's Opifex Worlds free PDF mags, and in fact it was written by none other than a certain Marcus D Bone (DC3 Project Bossman!) The mag was a free download but right now I can't find a copy. Mike LaB has put his adventures up as freebies but that article doesn't seem to be available now I'll send you a copy when I have time to grab one from home!

[Zvezda]

Better jet: Post it here so we can all download it.

[anthraxus]

Typically how I combat this is to simply start the combat at one phase before the highest phase of the PCs. This does an ample job of showing that the critters are faster than the PCs without giving them several phases of unretaliated violence. There is nothing in the rules that states that all combats have to start on the 6.

[Morthrai]

Erm...

Very red-faced here, as I checked up on that alternative Initiative system and it wasn't in OBMRU after all, but it is in Demonground Issue 6 which is freely downloadable from here.

You'd think I would be able to remember something like that after all that time I spent as an editor of the magazine! The article that Marcus had in OBMRU was something entirely different.

[Zvezda]

There is no problem with that I guess we ALL have read the article in DG and nontheless have forgotten about it.

[Fiannaidhe]

I love the Initiative system introduced by Marcus.

Roll 1D10 and add your intiative. Your number of actions and when you go are determined by subtracting 5 from your total, and continuing to do so until you reach a positive number greater than zero.

Example1: My initiative is 4 and I rolled a 10 on a D10. 4+10=14. My first action is on 14, my second action is on 9, my third and last action is on 4.

Example 2: I rolled a dismal 1 on the D10 this time. So 4+1=5. My first action is on 5, and sadly it is my last action since the GM only counts off from 15 to 1 for the combat turn/round.

I love this rule because it shakes things up. Sometimes you get the computer geek getting a lucky break in combat and being able to do more things than the renegade andrioid combat monster.

Two Thumbs up

[Fiannaidhe]

Almost forgot:

If the GM wants the critters to have an edge, subtract a different number like 4 or 3 instead of 5.

[R.A.G.G.]

If I may, we have developed/experimented with five alternate methods, only two seem appropriate. I included the one the players prefer below. The Combat Turn duration does not seem to have any effect on the game’s mechanics, unless you have a real NEED to track actions per minute. This variant retains the affects of a higher initiative; characters with a higher INIT scores would most often act before a character with a lower INIT score (based in 7 being statistically the most common roll); but still allows a bit of random variation.

Initiative Score Modified Method
The Combat Turn is changed to one minute and is divided into 12 five-second Combat Phases. To determine Initiative, the player rolls 2d6 subtracting their character’s INIT score (a result of 0 equals a 1); this is the Phase in which the character can take their first action. Lower number acts first, the GM “counts up” the initiative 1 thru 12; when a character’s initiative is called, that character can perform his first action. The character can continue to perform one action per phase in the subsequent, consecutive phases. Simultaneous actions are performed in order of highest to lowest INIT score, then AGL score.

Example: A character has an Initiative of 3; the player rolls a 6 and subtracts 3, equaling 3. GM counts, “1, 2, 3…”. The character can perform his first action when 3 is reached. He may perform his second action on 4 and he may perform his final action on 5 (if not used for defense).

[Fiannaidhe]

That's an interesting concept, thanks for sharing!

[R.A.G.G.]

That's an interesting concept, thanks for sharing!

You are welcome. It is fairly smooth and is similar to many other RPGs; so it seems easier for new players to DC to get used to.

[Zvezda]

Though it somewhat slows the avantage of trained figters over untrained fighters down.

[R.A.G.G.]

Though it somewhat slows the avantage of trained figters over untrained fighters down.

If by "trained and untrained" you mean high and low initiative, true it can. However, characters with a higher initiative will more often then not go first. For example; a creature with a 6 initiative will always go within the first 6 phases, where as a student with a 1 initiative can start on anywhere from 1 to 11 (yes, I know there will never be a 12 using 2d6-n, I tried to stay within the current dice pool). This method attempts to keep the advantage in the hands of those with the higher initiative, but reduce the “you are dead before you can scream in terror” affect of the original system – and players who have characters with a low initiative can, at times, get bored while watch all those ex-military type have all the fun.

[Zvezda]

Yep, for fun's sake it is superior. An that's what the games are all abut in the end. Having fun. I always enjoyed the mechanics which made armed civilians less dangerous than trained soldiers. Something that's missing in almost every other RPG. I can, however, only confirm what you said about the fun thing. Players without a militaty career often compliained about that. I reacted by changing from 'action' to 'investigation' with fewer fights and more roleplaying.

[Braxen]

I am not sure if it was karma, bad dice, or just the powers behind the veil but my players who did not have a military background did better in fire fights than those that did. You would hear things like
"ok marine, now just take a deep breath and as you exhale squeeze the trigger. Be sure not to jerk on the trigger or you will miss..again
" "Hey grunt the target is over there! We dont shoot school buses!!"
"What do you mean you dropped the genade?!"

It made for some funny interplay