Dark Conspiracy-like novels

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:39 pm

I don't like the CoC game to much. It has too many flaws for a good RPG. You and your players are lucky that you got DC instead. It is way better. There are some very good adventures for CoC which can be easily reworked but all that insanity stuff is very boring.
For readings I suggest everything form Ambros Bierce. Lovecraft has taken many of his ideas form him.

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:47 pm

Zvezda wrote:I don't like the CoC game to much. It has too many flaws for a good RPG.

Controversial...

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:53 pm

Unfortunatly we can't fight in here...it is the War Room...
But you are right, many people have bought it.

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:32 am

Zvezda wrote:Unfortunatly we can't fight in here...it is the War Room...

Classic (Dr Strangelove?). Nothing wrong with having a civilized discussion though, compare and contrast, that sort of thing:

I've always been a fan of CoC despite its flaws. I don't think anyone could mistake the SAN system for anything like a realistic depiction of mental health problems but it works for the game. I'd say it's appropriate (but not mandatory) for a horror game to have a fear mechanic of some description.

As to comparing CoC and DC, well, I think they have different approaches to similar types of horror. I'd suggest that the key difference is that DC is a bit more heroic. A small band of determined people can beat back the darkness. Especially if they have guns. In CoC they probably can't. Especially if they have guns. For me, both approaches have something to offer. It's like the Roman chap says in Spartacus, it's ok to enjoy both oysters and snails. I know he was talking about something else but you get the picture.

Only read a couple of Bierce tales "....Owl Creek Bridge" and "Chickamauga" (the latter a real sicko tour de force). He's certainly a superior prose stylist to Lovecraft but I guess that's no suprise.

anthraxus · Post by **anthraxus** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:03 pm

This isn't really a novel or even a source of inspiration, but all the talk of Cthulhu and my recent trip to DragonCon made me think of this: http://dragoncontv.com/dctv2006//dctv_CthulhusClues.mp4

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:00 pm

Yep, sure. Dr. Merkwürdigliebe. Exellent analysis Vanya, if I might call you Vanya. Even though I think that a good Boy’s Anti-Tank Rifle or a portable 08/15 MG can make a difference, even in CoC. Personally I prefer the referee to be responsible for creating fear. It is cooler to have the players afraid than just the PCs. That is a big advantage of DC. Some things in CoC are just plain stupid, in a way even removing fear. Situations where PCs lost SAN through reading books for example. It’s always like Monty Pythons’ Killing Joke. Anyways. You like it. I don’t. But I use loads of stuff published for CoC. Damn I nearly fell from the chair! Oysters and snails J just like you said! That’s the spirit.

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:02 pm

anthraxus wrote:This isn't really a novel or even a source of inspiration, but all the talk of Cthulhu and my recent trip to DragonCon made me think of this: http://dragoncontv.com/dctv2006//dctv_CthulhusClues.mp4

That's a nice summary of the avarage night of CoC...thanks for sharing.

Post by **Morthrai** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:14 pm

Now, I'll be the first to admit that if there was a competition "Who Is The Biggest Fan Of Dark Conspiracy?" it would probably end up with Marcus and myself fighting it out

There again, he is the one who started the revival so I guess I lose on points scored

Anyway, I really really love the Cthulhu game and more especially its offspring, Delta Green. In fact, the only convention I insist on attending over here in the UK, no matter what, is Continuum because I get to play Cthulhu and DG all weekend long

On the other hand, I have found that many of the UK and European DG crowd either are now or have been in the past, DC fans. Also even we die-hard DC nuts have to admit our game was never perfect before

Each to their own I say, but yes every game has its faults.

Anyways, back to DC-compatible stories

In case I haven't mentioned this one before: The Jagged Orbit by John Brunner. Cynical megacorps, street violence, local defence militias, roving TV journalists and hallucinogenic drugs. The only thing missing is monsters!

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:50 pm

Zvezda wrote: Even though I think that a good Boy’s Anti-Tank Rifle or a portable 08/15 MG can make a difference, even in CoC.

Don't know a huge amount about guns but I do know the Boyes ATR wasn't much use against German tanks. I'd be even less inclined to use it against a CoC/DC nasty. Have you seen the WWII CoC scenario "Underground" which actually has the stats for the BATR plus some other WWII hardware?

Zvezda wrote:Personally I prefer the referee to be responsible for creating fear. It is cooler to have the players afraid than just the PCs. That is a big advantage of DC. Some things in CoC are just plain stupid, in a way even removing fear. Situations where PCs lost SAN through reading books for example. It’s always like Monty Pythons’ Killing Joke.

All valid points which I can't refute. CoC possibly starting to show its age now with the SAN mechanic. The stat itself is really just another type of hit points. As Lee says, no game is perfect.

Funnily enough I've done the reverse of what you've done and adapted a few Challenge DC adventures for my CoC campaign. They worked just fine.

Marcus, don't know if this discussion is going to run and run but might be worth separating out into its own thread? e.g. "CoC vs DC: Compare and Contrast."

P.S Ivan Dobski is a pseudonym to hide my identity from THEM.

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:08 pm

Ivan Dobski wrote:Don't know a huge amount about guns but I do know the Boyes ATR wasn't much use against German tanks. I'd be even less inclined to use it against a CoC/DC nasty. Have you seen the WWII CoC scenario "Underground" which actually has the stats for the BATR plus some other WWII hardware?

Nope, I havn't seen it. But I'll look for it. Do you happen to know the publisher? Games Workshop or a new one? Well it has a lot of damage dice and that what counts.

The weakness of CoC lies in the background, rather than in the mechanics I think. But a good referee can make a game of DG very interesting.
That converting is quite cool. DC and CoC (or even more DG with it's Aliens) are very simmilar.

Ivan Dobski wrote:P.S Ivan Dobski is a pseudonym to hide my identity from THEM.

I was thinking that. But remember, just because you are paranoid does not mean they are NOT after you.

@ Lee: I have made the same expirience. Most DG players liked DC. I really hope that DC3 will be a commercial success....even though I loved the exclusiveness of DC

P.S. Hell, I just read some 9/11 conspiracy stuff...there are some strange people out there...very strange.

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:47 pm

Zvezda wrote: Nope, I havn't seen it. But I'll look for it. Do you happen to know the publisher? Games Workshop or a new one?

Underground by Marcus Rowland. Appeared in Games Workshop's Good Games Guide, a one off magazine which dates from the mid 80s. Might be worth trying ebay?

Zvezda wrote: The weakness of CoC lies in the background, rather than in the mechanics I think. But a good referee can make a game of DG very interesting.
That converting is quite cool. DC and CoC (or even more DG with it's Aliens) are very simmilar.

I think the background is its strength. Chaosium did a good job of putting together a coherent mythos from some quite disparate elements including the stories of August Derleth and Brian Lumley which, let's face it, for the most part, aren't very good. Of course the flipside of this is that it doesn't quite have the flexibility of Dark Conspiracy.

I like the use of the Greys in DC. I was never too impressed with them being the mi-go's glove puppets in Delta Green.

Zvezda wrote: I was thinking that. But remember, just because you are paranoid does not mean they are NOT after you.

THEY are watching:

http://www.smashthevolgs.net/

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:48 pm

We went so far off topic that I can already see AD&D somwhere...But it is the most active thread...First: Thanks for the warning and for the info on underground.
Second: Do you have experience with D20 CoC?

Linden · Post by **Linden** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:53 am

Zvezda wrote:We went so far off topic that I can already see AD&D somwhere...But it is the most active thread...

Well, as I've mentioned, I certainly think it deserves its own thread. Er...Marcus...help?

Zvezda wrote: Second: Do you have experience with D20 CoC?

I don't, although I have played a bit of D20 modern. Now, D20, there's a strange system.

Post by **Morthrai** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:44 pm

Zvezda wrote:Lee: I have made the same expirience. Most DG players liked DC. I really hope that DC3 will be a commercial success....even though I loved the exclusiveness of DC

Well yeah, we have kind of become a little club. Hopefully the new edition will assimilate more food-humans....er, I mean, introduce a lot more people to our favourite game

Zvezda wrote: P.S. Hell, I just read some 9/11 conspiracy stuff...there are some strange people out there...very strange.

Oh yeah definitely

Funny thing is I can remember reading conspiracy theory stuff years ago before 9/11 or even the death of Princess Diana, and it was even weirder than the stuff we get these days

Zvezda · Post by **Zvezda** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:49 am

@Ivan: strange as in 'crap' or as in 'interesting'?

@Master Lee: I hope so too, but you will definetly need a very good marketing strategy I am affraid. I am confident you'll make it. And for that conspiracy stuff...I just somtimes wonder if these people actually belive what they say or if they only want some attention...