Shotguns!

[Linden]

Just finished my first DC adventure as GM last night. Ended with the PCs shooting it out with some rustic Igors, both sides blasting away at other across a farmyard with shotguns. Really brought home how lethal said weapons are when firing buckshot. If I’m reading the rules correctly the likes of the Mossberg M500 and Browning Autoriot do 9D6 damage at distances up to 40m. The damage rating seems comparable to CoC where a shotgun does 4D6 at short range. However in CoC short range is only 10m. After that the damage effect starts to dissipate, although it spreads over a wider area.

It seems to me there is quite a wide variation between DC and CoC in their interpretation of how shotguns work. I’m no expert in firearms so I’d be interested in board members’ views as to which system is the more realistic, DC or CoC?

[Morthrai]

Given that GDW were always first and foremost a wargames company I'd be tempted to go with their interpretation, but that's just me

Actually it reminds me of Lester Smith's quote about how, when he started working for GDW, if someone said "RPG" another person would ask if they meant roleplaying games or rocket propelled grenades

[Linden]

Given that GDW were always first and foremost a wargames company I'd be tempted to go with their interpretation, but that's just me

The wargames, the wargames, they were mad. I remember White Death: The Battle of Velikye Luki. Took several times longer to play than the duration of the actual battle. That can't be right can it?

However, getting back on topic: I'm not convinced all the rules in GDW's house systems accurately simulate reality. As I recall the autofire rule came in for a lot of stick...

[Zvezda]

I suppose for a RPG the DC combat rules are quite good. But first things first: Congrets on your first term as GM!!!
Now back to the shotguns these things are used for one purpose only. Shoot to kill. People do not normally survive being shot by an 18mm weapon. Remember that the Germans want them to be outlawed in WWI (while using poison gas themselves) because they where to deadly in the trenches. I think the GDW rules are in this case quite good.

[Linden]

I suppose for a RPG the DC combat rules are quite good. But first things first: Congrets on your first term as GM!!!

Thanks Zvezda. Enjoyed DC as player back in the 90s. Feels slightly strange to be in the driving seat as it were some 15 years or so later.

Now back to the shotguns these things are used for one purpose only. Shoot to kill. People do not normally survive being shot by an 18mm weapon. Remember that the Germans want them to be outlawed in WWI (while using poison gas themselves) because they where to deadly in the trenches. I think the GDW rules are in this case quite good.

I remember reading about the Germans objecting to shogtuns WWI. I can certainly appreciate the lethality at short range and in confined spaces (I've read a lot of James Ellroy novels). I was just wondering if that lethality is maintained out to 40m or whether the pellets start to spread before then, presumably becoming less deadly but with a wider area of effect.

[Zvezda]

That does largely depend on the choke you are using for the shotgun. I prefere those which spread as soon as possible since they are capable of delivering up to 50d6 of damage. Most modern shotguns will instantly stop a target hit at a range of approx. 45 m.

[Linden]

That does largely depend on the choke you are using for the shotgun. I prefere those which spread as soon as possible since they are capable of delivering up to 50d6 of damage. Most modern shotguns will instantly stop a target hit at a range of approx. 45 m.

Cheers Zvezda, that's answered my question quite nicely.

[ReHerakhte]

That does largely depend on the choke you are using for the shotgun. I prefere those which spread as soon as possible since they are capable of delivering up to 50d6 of damage. Most modern shotguns will instantly stop a target hit at a range of approx. 45 m.

And barrel length plus type of ammo, I owned a sweet Winchester 1300 Ranger with a Deer Slug barrel (22in long, rifled barrel, so no choke), was okay with buckshot but DAMN could it smack something hard with a slug to a decent range! For a pic of a 1300 fitted with deer slug barrel, go here http://www.cedarcreekoutfittersllc.com/ ... 140804.JPG
With buckshot it'd probably reach about 30 metres before becoming too spread out.

Of course, that's all in the past now since the Australian government gun byback scheme (didn't stop the crims from getting guns however...)

Cheers,
Kevin

[Zvezda]

Yep but barrel lenght was coverd in the rules so I did not mention it. And unfortunatly there are no different types of ammo in DC...well except for those made by other gamers that is. Nice gun.

[ReHerakhte]

Yep but barrel lenght was coverd in the rules so I did not mention it. And unfortunatly there are no different types of ammo in DC...well except for those made by other gamers that is. Nice gun.

Fair enough. It's been quite a while since I played and GM'ed so I need to read up on the rules again!
As you can tell, I have jumped onto a few threads here way past the time they were originally discussed - too busy running around with work and the like but worse, a dodgy computer that still needs some tweaking.
As for the Winchester, yes I liked it very much, a very good scrub gun for all that close-in terrain.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Zvezda]

Anyways! It 's cool that some more people participate...well wait with the rules maybe...DC3 is about to be published.

[Paul Mann III]

Given that GDW were always first and foremost a wargames company I'd be tempted to go with their interpretation, but that's just me :

I'm inclined to agree. I struggled with alot of their formulas, and that seems to imply they had some research into their work....

[ReHerakhte]

Welcome aboard Paul,
Like Morthrai I'm inclined to favour GDWs interpretation, they had a few military enthusiasts amongst their number including one USMC veteran of Vietnam.
As for CoC, I remember being very much unimpressed when getting the CoC 1990s book '1990s Handbook' and reading that silencers/suppressors could only be fitted to a small number of firearms, typically semi-auto pistols and (direct quote, page 20) "Suppressors only work on comparatively low-powered bullets. A suppressed M-16 rifle, for instance, is not only ludicrous but impossible"
I was so amazed at such a poorly researched statement that I never again trusted CoC interpretations without doing some checking of my own first.
It seems that the authors of the '1990s Handbook' had never seen any of the information about USSF using suppressed M16s during Vietnam and they obviously never bothered to check any Jane's Infantry Weapons yearbooks.

Cheers,
Kevin

Given that GDW were always first and foremost a wargames company I'd be tempted to go with their interpretation, but that's just me :

I'm inclined to agree. I struggled with alot of their formulas, and that seems to imply they had some research into their work....

[Paul Mann III]

Welcome aboard Paul,
Like Morthrai I'm inclined to favour GDWs interpretation, they had a few military enthusiasts amongst their number including one USMC veteran of Vietnam.

Indeed. As a student of military history, and the only person in family not to be a combat soldier in 150 years I was unable to find any really needed changes to the system. I did alter the recoil on a few weapons, but I saw an alteration made in the Booster Kit, I think, and felt I could usse my wide experience with firearms to my credit. In the end, it's all about how you're comfortable running your game. You could, by all rights, use the hit point and weapon system from any game you know, and just use the character building and plotlines from DC....

[Zvezda]

I agree with everything you stated, but there was always one thing wich I did not like about the GDW weapons and that was the 9mm. I havn't changed it really but I always liked to. Have you done something about it?