The AA-12

[Marcus Bone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

Ouch!?!

[ReHerakhte]

Ah yes, the advertising blitz for the AA-12 still goes on, ya gotta love it!
Don't get me wrong, it's a fine shotgun, but that idiot on the clip from YouTube does little to no research into the subjects he waffles on about.
It's not a new weapon at all having been originally developed by Max Atchisson in 1972 for fighting in Vietnam (originally called Atchisson Assault 12gauge... AA-12).
The patent was allowed to lapse or Atchisson sold it if I remember right, MPS picked up the patent in the 1990s, refined it and renamed it the Auto Assault-12. They did very little actual design work so thought they would make big money from it. They weren't successful and have been trying to make some money out of it ever since.

Now the "War on Terror" is in full swing, MPS has really been pushing the advertising. Like the guy claiming that it is "probably the most powerful weapon in the world" and that it is the only large bore weapon in the world designed to eliminate recoil... besides the USAS-12, the SPAS-15, the Calico shotgun project, the Pancor Jackhammer, the H&K CAWS, the AAI CAWS, the Barrett M82 .50BMG rifle, the Arpad 600 35mm grenade launcher, the Falconet 24mm grenade launcher...

And I LOVE the comment about it being practically maintenance and lubrication free... I remember they said that about another weapon about 40 years ago, a little black rifle... advertising spin never dies, it just hopes you never remember!


The reason I am so critical/cynical of shows like that and the prats that host them? They are the major source of information for most of the population (who are too lazy to research anything themselves - and why would they, when glossy, glam shows like that make disinformation so palatable!)
His statement that the AA-12 could rewrite the rules of urban warfare is complete advertising schmaltz from the company that sells them, same with the line about it being the 'World's deadliest shotgun'.
The USAS-12 is every bit as good as the AA-12 and cheaper yet still has not been taken up by any military/police agency in any numbers and it's been available for longer. So if they didn't buy the USAS-12, why would they bother with the AA-12... unless a slick ad campaign can convince you it's the "World's deadliest shotgun!"

Apologies to all if I dampened anyone's enthusiasm for the AA-12 but falsehood and sensationalism in advertising really annoy the hell out of me
There is a benefit to this though, it serves as a really great example of the kind of advertising campaign you could expect a Corp to use to sell products that are pretty much equal to anything else on the market.

[Zvezda]

I remember I have seen the old AA-12 in an RPG Sourcebook I an not sure which one it was. Do you have any additional information on the Arpad 600 35mm Grenade Launcher? The only info I got on that thing is from an ohter old RPG source book. I have never been able to find any real photos or any other info on this weapon.
But back to the topic. For a game like DC the AA-12 is a very, very useful addition.

[Morthrai]

Once again the AA-12 turns up OK it's one of a small number of fully automatic shotguns, and it is a bit of a beast! However, even though it's a pump action I do quite like the looks of the Neostead 2000, especially the two magazines to allow different types of ammunition to be selected.

Plus it looks like something from Star Wars

[ReHerakhte]

ARPAD 600

Paraphrased from Jane's Infantry Weapons 1985-1986
Origin: Swiss
35mm close supprt weapon

Further development of Falconnet close support weapon system.
Shoulder-fired, multi-purpose close support weapon for infantry.
Lightweight & compact, can be directed at targets rapidly, can deal with stationary or moving targets & can be fired from cover.
The rifled barrel is supported on a shoulder frame and is free to recoil, the movement being controlled by a hydro-pneumatic buffer above the tube.
HE & Illum rounds developed. Ammo weight is so light that one man can carry 20 to 30 rounds.

Overall length: 960mm
Overall weight: 6.8kg
Barrel length: 805mm
Recoil stroke: 305mm
Sights: Optical
Practical range: stationary target 600m; moving target 400m

Ammunition
35mmx176mm
Muzzle velocity: 600m/s
Time of flight to 500m: 1 second
Time of flight until self destruct: 2 seconds
Penetration, HE: 50mm steel plate
Weight, HE: 167g


So that's the official stuff, after looking over the two pics that I have and reading the Jane's entry several times and reading several other people's websites were any reference to the weapon was given, I'll add the following: -

The weapon is essentially a rocket launcher. It's loaded either from the muzzle like the RPG-7, or it is loaded from the breech like the M1 & M9 Bazooka (I'd say that it's loaded from the breech due to the way the barrel works - see below).
The barrel is a seperate piece inside the main tube and when the weapon is fired, the round is propelled forward in the normal manner but the barrel recoils to the rear for a distance of 305mm.

The buffer above the tube controls the barrels travel to the rear and the action of the two counters the recoil. This also means the weapon has no backblast (despite what some websites may state) because it uses the Davis Countershot Principle (whereby a mass equal in weight to the round is propelled in the opposite direction to the round, or as in this case, an action that delivers the same energy as an equal weight mass would).

No backblast means no obvious firing signature unlike the 84mm Carl Gustav for example. Not only could you fire the Arpad from an enclosed space, firing it would not give your position away as easily as other rocket launcher types.

The time of flight is 1 second to 500m. ONE SECOND!
That means it has very little time to be affected by the wind.
It also means it can engage low & slow aircraft and also low flying helicopters and it was indeed intended to engage helicopters along with light vehicles, bunkers, machinegun nests and so on. It also means it would be very useful as a counter-sniper weapon.

It's also quite slim and could easily be slung over the shoulder like any long rifle, meaning that the user could carry whatever self defence weapon they needed without worrying about some great weight or overly long weapon e.g. 84mm Carl Gustav, M9 Bazooka, Panzerfaust 3 etc. etc. getting in their way whenever they needed to fire at the enemy, hit the dirt, climb over a wall and so on.

A range of 600m means it covers the same range as rifle grenades and 40mm grenades as used by the M79, M203 and so on but it also has an extra 150-200m over the M79, M203 etc. etc. That range in fact is about the same range as most infantry rifles are expected to to be effective at. So with the Arpad, you have a lightweight, accurate rocket launcher that can give support out to the same distance you have your riflemen firing to.


Cheers,
Kevin

[Morthrai]

A few details for the ARPAD plus a line drawing can be found here.

[Zvezda]

Yo! Thanks for the info on that Apard thing. Has it been canceled or something it has not even a wikipedia entry.
Well, today I deeply regret that I have allowed the Neostead 2000 since most of my players have figured out that for DC this is the best weapon ever.

[ReHerakhte]

Unfortunately, the Arpad didn't get enough interest for the company to put it into production so it sort of faded from existence at the end of the 1980s. At one point it was being offered through the Italian company Franchi but even with a well known name like Franchi behind it, the Arpad just didn't seem to appeal to any military, a real shame because it would be ideal for some of the warfare that has occured since the 1980s.

[farfuture]

When the AA-12 was first proposed, they had a multi-level marketing scheme to finance it. GDW game designer (officially famous since his induction into the Adventure Gaming Hall of Fame) Loren Wiseman paid a deposit to order one, and then convinced his fellow designers Marc Miller (me!) Frank Chadwick, and Rich Banner to each make a similar deposit (though him).

Alas! the whole scheme fell apart when the AA-12 company (Spectre) used the money to move its headquarters to rural Tennessee, buy a house for the company president (it was supposed to be business offices) and started making and marketing an inferior brand of trigger locks instead.

[Morthrai]

Marc Miller himself!

Welcome to what has become the main pocket of resistance against the Dark incursions sir. As you know it's all down to you that I became a gamer in the first place, and I wouldn't change any of that side of my life!

Erm...back to shotguns I guess.