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I might be a little behind the times with this but I've just recently checked Drive Thru RPG for DC products (I don't normally check because I already have all the stuff) and found that they offer PDFs of the three Sin City volumes that were published.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?cPath=4764

I think the Sin City books are worth having so if you're curious and prepared to pay US$8 per volume you could be reading them this afternoon!
However for those prices you could spend another $11 and get the 2nd edition CD-ROM (US$35) from Far Future Enterprises which includes everything published for 2nd Ed. plus separate maps for Sin City and the version 2.5 rules beta as well as including the first 9 issues of Demonground.
http://www.farfuture.net/cdroms.html

Far Future seems to be the better deal. Thanks for posting I think it is about time to buy the CD.

Of all the previously published material, I am told that the Sin City books are the rarest. Geoff Skellams told me once that there are probably less than a hundred print copies of his volume, and I am lucky enough to have one of them

For anyone who is interested in seeing them I would say get them as PDFs, either alone or as part of the Far Future collections.

I have no idea about Drive Thru but I think with Far Future the money is going into the right hands.

Drive Thru is a hosting site for the various companies who want to distribute their games. If you buy something from them, the money goes to the company/author that produced the game and a certain amount goes to Drive Thru as payment for them acting as the retail site. So if you buy GDW games from Drive Thru, the money still goes to Far Future Enterprises

Thanks for the Info, besides Sin City I already own everything on the CD so they provide a good service and I save some money. This has been really helpful.

Morthrai wrote:Of all the previously published material, I am told that the Sin City books are the rarest. Geoff Skellams told me once that there are probably less than a hundred print copies of his volume, and I am lucky enough to have one of them

Let's see if I can recall the conversations I had with Ken Whitman back a decade or so ago!

Mike's book came out first, and was reprinted for GenCon 99. Both Geoff's and my book debuted at the same time.

I believe that there was 200 copies of Mike's & my books at the start of the con, and that Ken had to order a reprint of both during the four days (for future sales). Geoff's book only had 100 copies available, and I know he was angry that his dedication didn't make it into the book.

I worked the booth a couple of times during the Con, and remember signing a couple of my copies for purchasers (and friends -where are you Rob Beck!), and vividly recall seeing that there was only 5 or so copies of Geoff's book available when we started to pack-up.

Ah... the memories. I actually plan on making Gencon next year (budgets depending), so hopefully I'll see Tad, Lee and Norm's DC books there!

Hey Marcus, thanks for the info (I'm always interested in hearing the background stories of the games).
I realize that printing would have been a major cost but to have just 100 copies of Geoff's Sin City book seems almost negligent considering the need to reprint the earlier Sin City volumes to keep up with demand.

ReHerakhte wrote:Hey Marcus, thanks for the info (I'm always interested in hearing the background stories of the games).
I realize that printing would have been a major cost but to have just 100 copies of Geoff's Sin City book seems almost negligent considering the need to reprint the earlier Sin City volumes to keep up with demand.

I think the idea was to make updates to the master document before printing more. Of course, things soon changed with Ken soon giving up the license...

Marcus

As has been stated many, many times in the past, it was a damned shame that the 2nd edition of DC was shutdown before it got itself really going.

I remember the adverts in the back of Demonground showing that there would be six volumes for the Sin City campaign and knowing that they were planned, I always wonder how much work was done on them and if it would ever be seen by the public.
I wanted those other three volumes!

There was a similar situation with GDW's Twilight: 2000 game. A sourcebook called Armor 21 was going to take T2k into the 21st century with the war in Africa over resources such as water and croplands. Apparently there was some progress on the game but then when T$R called their lawsuit on GDW, Armor 21 was dropped and all we have now is some tantalizing adverts in Challenge magazine.

Marcus Bone wrote:[I actually plan on making Gencon next year (budgets depending), so hopefully I'll see Tad, Lee and Norm's DC books there!

That would be cool I guess we will all have to wait and see how it pans out!

ReHerakhte wrote:As has been stated many, many times in the past, it was a damned shame that the 2nd edition of DC was shutdown before it got itself really going.

I remember the adverts in the back of Demonground showing that there would be six volumes for the Sin City campaign and knowing that they were planned, I always wonder how much work was done on them and if it would ever be seen by the public.
I wanted those other three volumes!

As far as I know, nothing really happened with the next three sourcebooks.

I'm not too ashamed to say that my relationship with Geoff & Mike deteriorated a bit after Gencon. I got married shortly after Gencon, and my mind really wasn't on gaming for a good 12 months there.

I have to say, also that while the other two had pretty similar ideas in regards to the direction of the game and setting, mine went in a different direction.

Marcus

Yeah I can well imagine that the ideas for the other volumes would be brief (perhaps just a few sentences) so there'd be nothing really informative available but I do like to daydream about them

ReHerakhte wrote:Yeah I can well imagine that the ideas for the other volumes would be brief (perhaps just a few sentences) so there'd be nothing really informative available but I do like to daydream about them

I doubt I'd have written the 5th one (even if they'd gone ahead), as I was bitterly disappointed as to the extent of which my book was changed (or massacred) in the editing process.

The idea I orginally had in mind (way back then) was to have a plot involving genetic manipuation of 'test tube' babies to produce super soldiers - who of course were emotionally unstable and 'breaking down'. The story would unfold slowly, with the death of one of this children (now a teenager), followed by the slow building terrible realisation that hundreds, if not thousands, of children world wide are potential victims of their genetics! I don't think I got very far down the track with the plotting, however (although I should reopen my 'DC' box and see).

BTW, and while I'm in the mood to talk about it. In my adventure - Of Gods & Gates, if you remove all the references to 'Spirits' and replace them with Angels, you might get a better idea of what is going on in my plot.

Of course, I was butting heads with Mike & Geoff at the time over the adventure. They wanted something more 'railroaded' and linear, while I like adventures like Masks of Nyarlathotep - where only the key points of the plot are actually written and the rest if left to the players/Referee to create in game play. In the end I gave in a bit, but in hindsight I should have stuck to my guns, as when I read the book now, all I see is its unforfilled potential.

Sorry for going on...

Okay, at this point I would just like to go...

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!

Marcus I am almost the same as you in that regard. I prefer adventures where the basic course to the plot is laid out but there are always alternate ways to get there so that if the Players/Referee want to take a different path to the plot, they are not penalized for doing so.
I moved away from railroaded adventures some time back when I got more confident in my abilities as a GM to deal with whatever twists and turns occurred in the game. Give me lots and lots of background material but let me plot my own path to the adventure's conclusion - these days I'm going to do that regardless of how the author wrote the adventure!

While this is going to sound like a monumental 'suck-up' job, I think your idea of the test tube babies is damned awesome, pretty much the sort of some black-lottsa grey-some white world I like to run. I now try to run games with the mantra "no restrictions, only consequences", (something I learnt from a friend's gaming style) and a strictly linear (railroaded!), black & white only world view really doesn't work with that.
I so very much want to use the test tube babies idea now...