From either edition, what is the mechanic(s) of DC that you never used/immediately changed?
I ask this solely for my own edification as my least favorite aspect of the DC rules is the explosion calculations. Any calculation that requires the use of square roots to figure out damage has got to be flawed.
Least Favorite Mechanic
Least Favorite Mechanic
"All right, Phase 6, Bad guys go first..."
Re: Least Favorite Mechanic
I'd be very hard pressed to disagree with that. I don't believe that you should HAVE to keep a calculator on hand to play a game.anthraxus wrote:I ask this solely for my own edification as my least favorite aspect of the DC rules is the explosion calculations. Any calculation that requires the use of square roots to figure out damage has got to be flawed.
I, personally, have two gripes with the system (not including the above one...that's a pain, but it's still workable).
<B>- Initiative:</B> It gets too unbalancing too fast. I agree that some creatures should be able to go faster and more often than others, but a 6:1 ratio? Scale that back just a bit.
<B>- Unarmed Combat Damage:</B> I don't think that the book actually explains if the Unarmed Combat Damage is a straight point damage (UCD of 1 = 1 point of damage) or if it is a die code (UCD of 1 = 1D6 damage).
Those are my primary gripes about the GDW house system. Other than that, it's very functional, usable and easy to pick up. And really, it's easy to pick up even with the initiative usage...just don't like it.
-Ryan
I don't like the difficulty levels. The steps they make are way to large. The target number of 16 in an 'average' test against the number of 8 in a 'diffucult' roll with nothing between them is very unpleasant to play. Unfortunatly that is what the game is based on. I also totally agree on the Initiative thing. In my opinion it is quite obvious that the game was made in the early 1990s...which reminds me of the game's biggest drawback:
Giving 'real life' statistics for computers!!! The trusted old Toshiba 12886sx for example. A calculator with the impressive amount of 20mb RAM and a 200mb hard disk (along with a CD-ROM drive!). At a weitght or 1.6 kg.
Giving 'real life' statistics for computers!!! The trusted old Toshiba 12886sx for example. A calculator with the impressive amount of 20mb RAM and a 200mb hard disk (along with a CD-ROM drive!). At a weitght or 1.6 kg.
The automatic gunfire rules. Chuck a bucket full of dice, only score a hit on a six. Seemed a bit too random. Then again, one of my dad's mates was in Kenya and he mentioned that with a submachinegun (sten or sterling I forget which) it was just a case of holding the trigger down and hoping some of the bullets hit. So, it could be realistic but there must be a way of reproducing the uncertainty involved without having a totally different system to the main gun combat rules. Didn't somone write a Demonground article adopting the old Cyberpunk rule where every number above the basic to hit roll was an additional hit?
I use the following rule for automatic fire(shooting at one target).
You roll your average d20. say your skill is 17 and 17 for the rangeband and you are useing a G3A3 that has Brst: 9. Calculate Brst/2 with fractions rounded up -> 5. Perfect would be 20% (for my rules) of 17(skill not rangeband) rounded down -> 3 (exact value 3.4 but I never seen anyone rolled 3.4 on a d20
)
If you roll 13 to 17 you will hit with one bullet
If you roll 8 to 12 you will hit with two bullets (17-5 = 12)
If you roll 4 to 7 you will hit with three bullets (17-(3-1)*5 = 7)(remember 3 is a perfect roll)
If you roll 1 to 3 you hit with 3 + 1D6 bullets (up to ROF 5 that is ROF for G3A3)
Antenna
EDIT : small error, but fatal for the rule
You roll your average d20. say your skill is 17 and 17 for the rangeband and you are useing a G3A3 that has Brst: 9. Calculate Brst/2 with fractions rounded up -> 5. Perfect would be 20% (for my rules) of 17(skill not rangeband) rounded down -> 3 (exact value 3.4 but I never seen anyone rolled 3.4 on a d20
)If you roll 13 to 17 you will hit with one bullet
If you roll 8 to 12 you will hit with two bullets (17-5 = 12)
If you roll 4 to 7 you will hit with three bullets (17-(3-1)*5 = 7)(remember 3 is a perfect roll)
If you roll 1 to 3 you hit with 3 + 1D6 bullets (up to ROF 5 that is ROF for G3A3)
Antenna
EDIT : small error, but fatal for the rule
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
Automatic fire on multiple targets is little b it more of a calculation from the GM.
First the player or GM must determine how many targets he/she going to "aim" at.
Instead of writting down rules I going to take an example and explain the rules while takeing the example. But first lets see what premises we got.
We got our average G3A3, We got a skill of 13 and a targetnumber of 26 (this number 26 is used in this example to not mix the original DC rules with my own). We got 3 targets. ROF is 5 and Brst is 9. Perfect Hit is 20% of 13 rounded down, 2(2.6). Critical failure is 17-20 (basic weapons understanding of a G3A3, what it is called in the DC book when you type in on a weapon I don't remeber off hand, but it can be as low as only 20).
Where you start. The "player" states which target is first and second target. then rolls d20 for 13, and if the player gonna try to "save" bullets by squeezing the trigger once each for every target (3 in this example) for changing target the player rolls for 13. First is a perfect succes (no bullet is wasted in between) the second is a success, one bullet for changing target is wasted. (now the player has 4 bullets to play with. He must spend at least 1 bullet per target. The forth he can spend on any target.
Now if the first changing target would been a critcal failure the player would only hit the first target. Missed the second and had to roll for the third. Instead of that bullet that going to hit the second target would have disapeered or be spendt on eitehr the second or the third target, it was never fired. So in this exclusion from the example even if the ROF is 5 only 4 bullets was fired.
Back to the main example 5 bullets was fired and 4 bullets "can hit". Then the player choose that the 4th bullet will be aimed at the second target.
Now we start to roll for hits. Three targets Assetnumber 26/3 (asset number divded with targets) rounded down is 8.
In the above example we know that :
1 bullet gonna hit at 3 to 8 (on one target) (2 is perfect hit)
more bullets will hit on 1 to 2 (1 + 1D6 bullets, but in this case only two bullets can hit the second target becouse the player has decided two bullets aimed at second target)
Antenna
First the player or GM must determine how many targets he/she going to "aim" at.
Instead of writting down rules I going to take an example and explain the rules while takeing the example. But first lets see what premises we got.
We got our average G3A3, We got a skill of 13 and a targetnumber of 26 (this number 26 is used in this example to not mix the original DC rules with my own). We got 3 targets. ROF is 5 and Brst is 9. Perfect Hit is 20% of 13 rounded down, 2(2.6). Critical failure is 17-20 (basic weapons understanding of a G3A3, what it is called in the DC book when you type in on a weapon I don't remeber off hand, but it can be as low as only 20).
Where you start. The "player" states which target is first and second target. then rolls d20 for 13, and if the player gonna try to "save" bullets by squeezing the trigger once each for every target (3 in this example) for changing target the player rolls for 13. First is a perfect succes (no bullet is wasted in between) the second is a success, one bullet for changing target is wasted. (now the player has 4 bullets to play with. He must spend at least 1 bullet per target. The forth he can spend on any target.
Now if the first changing target would been a critcal failure the player would only hit the first target. Missed the second and had to roll for the third. Instead of that bullet that going to hit the second target would have disapeered or be spendt on eitehr the second or the third target, it was never fired. So in this exclusion from the example even if the ROF is 5 only 4 bullets was fired.
Back to the main example 5 bullets was fired and 4 bullets "can hit". Then the player choose that the 4th bullet will be aimed at the second target.
Now we start to roll for hits. Three targets Assetnumber 26/3 (asset number divded with targets) rounded down is 8.
In the above example we know that :
1 bullet gonna hit at 3 to 8 (on one target) (2 is perfect hit)
more bullets will hit on 1 to 2 (1 + 1D6 bullets, but in this case only two bullets can hit the second target becouse the player has decided two bullets aimed at second target)
Antenna
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
Sorry I have had wrong about my Autofire rules.... It was ages ago I made them and my memory has been leaning on a Excel file. The autofire rules is indeed an iterative process. That means that if you don't have an advanced calculator that is programable or a computer to aid you I would suggest to not use my rules. The posts I made about my rules I told before this week are wrong. If still someone shows interrest I can send the excel or try to explain the way I do the calculations.
Thanks for showed interrest and sorry for haveing wrong on my own rules.
Antenna
Thanks for showed interrest and sorry for haveing wrong on my own rules.
Antenna
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
There are several rules that could used tweaked, but I find most just need clarified. I have a pretty good set of Autofire rules if anyone wants me to post them.
The one thing I think needs changed is how damage works. I think that most players have too many "hit points" and are rarly in serious danger. Either that or the guns are too weak. You shoot someone with a 9mm and they will be pretty wounded. 1d6 in DC is not that powerful. Sometime try halving everythings HP.
The one thing I think needs changed is how damage works. I think that most players have too many "hit points" and are rarly in serious danger. Either that or the guns are too weak. You shoot someone with a 9mm and they will be pretty wounded. 1d6 in DC is not that powerful. Sometime try halving everythings HP.
We have cut the hitpoints in halve too! It is much more fun. You are right on the 9mm thing, so far I have not found a way to solve that problem. It is strange that even an 'outstanding' headshot can't kill a player without the successful quick kill roll. Which is by the way one of my favoriet mechanic!!
Now I have took time to translate the EXCEL and made a small FAQ also to the file. Indeed you need an computer and sofware to read EXCEL files to use this file. Else it aint worth makeing tables (it would roughly make up to 5000 tables for each combination). Instead this excel uses calculations what I belive would be pausible to encounter in target way when useing automatic fire. Still i going to encorporate SA fire to the formulas before I post it on the net.
Antenna
EDIT : Added link to autofire rules.
Antennas Autofire rules (XLS)
EDIT 2 : made a small bugfix that I remeber that isn't totally clear for the users more then me
Antenna
EDIT : Added link to autofire rules.
Antennas Autofire rules (XLS)
EDIT 2 : made a small bugfix that I remeber that isn't totally clear for the users more then me
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
Since we are talking about auto fire here, let me share our rules.
New Autofire Rules
One of the best things about DC is that the Characters can fight back against the dark minions pretty well if they can figure out their evil plots. Overall DC combat is not too bad. However several rules are truly atrocious. The following lists those sections of fire combat that are truly broken and need fixed. Our group has play tested these rules extensively and find they are much more realistic.
The new fire system offers a few more options. The first change is that recoil is NOT retroactive. The recoil affects your shots, as you make them, not all at once. This is much more realistic than the previous system.
Second fully automatic weapons now have four modes of fire.
1. Semi Automatic Semi automatic fire is per the normal DC rules. A character can take up to five shots from an SA gun in a single phase. All other standard fire combat rules apply.
2. Full Automatic Spray Fully automatic is when a character is trying to unload a lot of bullets quickly at a target area. This is the only kind of full auto fire a character without small arms skill can use. This system steps back to the original DC rules for automatic fire. A character can fire up to five “bursts” of bullets at a target area or person. Each “burst” contributes the bullets listed under the ROF for the gun used. Each range category beyond short reduced the number of bullets in a “burst” by 2 (4 for 10 ROF weapons). If the recoil goes above the strength of the firing character, then one bullet is subtracted from each “burst” for each point recoil exceeds the strength of the user. Note that now that recoil is not retroactive the first “burst” fired may have all the bullets in it if a character's strength is high enough. Regardless a 3 or 5 ROF can never have less that 1 bullet per “burst” and a 10 ROF can never have less that 2. For each bullet left after recoil roll a d6. If the die is a 6 the bullet hits the primary target. After all bullets on the primary target are resolved, take half the bullets that missed and add all the bullets lost to recoil. Roll a d6 for each of these bullets. Any sixes result in hits on nearby targets in the area around the primary. If full auto is used for suppression fire on an area, roll 1 d6 for each bullet fired. Any sixes are hits on characters moving through the area this turn.
3. Controlled bursts. (“Remember; short, controlled bursts.” – Cpl. Hicks) This is a new mode of fire designed to simulate what automatic weapons can do when properly used. Only people with actually skill in small arms can use this fire method, others have not been trained. A controlled burst is when a group of bullets are fired at a target. Most automatic weapons are capable of using 3 to 5 round bursts. The type of burst a weapon fires is listing in the ROF. This tells how many bullets are fired in a burst. Controlled bursts can only be used at short or medium range, the bullets spread out too much at longer ranges. A controlled burst is fired just like a standard semi automatic shot with all of the same modifiers. A character can take up to five controlled bursts in a phase but each generated the burst rating for recoil. If the shot hits, the target is hit by one bullet. For every two points under the target number a shot hits by, the target is hit by another bullet, up to the total amount of bullets in the burst. Each bullet has a separate damage location rolled. For guns firing 10 round burst, 1 bullet hits for every number below the target number.
4. Aimed Bursts. Aimed bursts are only usable after a phase has been spent aiming or with a laser sight. An aimed burst is just like a controlled burst, except it is treated as an aimed shot. Therefore only the first controlled burst in a phase may count as an aimed burst. After the allowed aimed burst other bursts may be fired as controlled bursts up to a combined total of five bursts for the phase. Aimed bursts may be attempted at long range. In all other ways an aimed burst is the same as a controlled burst.
The following is an example to help clarify.
Roberto is getting his car fixed when a truckload of zombies pulls up. Roberto is well equipped and with a muttered curse whips out his handy HK MP-7. The HK MP-7 has a ROF of 5 and Burst Recoil of 6. Roberto has strength of 8 and a small arms rifle skill of 7 (total asset of 15). The first round he sprays the zombies coming at him. Using the full auto spray he elects to send off 3 sets of bullets in the phase. The first set is unaffected by recoil so contributes 5 rounds, the second loses 4 bullets to a minimum of 1 and so does the last set. (The last set should have lost more but there is a minimum of 1 for five round bursts). Roberto rolls a total of 7 dices and counts all sixes as hits on the primary target. Half of the misses and the recoil bullets are rerolled. On the primary Roberto rolls 2 sixes and hits twice. He then rolls 2 + 4 dice for secondary targets (remember round down). The next phase Roberto decides to finish off the clip with three controlled bursts. Roberto chooses three zombies at short range and fires. These are quick shots so are treated as at long range. Robert needs a 7 or less on the first zombie, a 3 or less on the second and a 1 on the third. (Again he should have no chance but the GM is nice and let him hit if he rolls a one). Roberto rolls a 3, 3,11. The first zombie is hit by 3 bullets, one for hitting at 7, one for two below at 5 and another for two below that at 3. The second zombie is hit with one bullet and the third zombie shambles on to rend Roberto’s brain out. No extra missed bullets are calculated. Later after reloading Roberto has a chance to aim at a lone zombie searching for him. Foolishly the zombie has moved into short range while Roberto is aiming. Roberto decides to make sure and fires two bursts. The first counts as aimed and requires a 15 or less to hit. The second is a controlled burst and requires 3 to hit. Roberto rolls a 3 and a 16. The first burst hits with all five bullets, again one for hitting and one for each two he beat the target by, 12, 10, 8, and 6. (He should have hit gain at 4 but there were only 5 bullets) The second burst missed.
New Autofire Rules
One of the best things about DC is that the Characters can fight back against the dark minions pretty well if they can figure out their evil plots. Overall DC combat is not too bad. However several rules are truly atrocious. The following lists those sections of fire combat that are truly broken and need fixed. Our group has play tested these rules extensively and find they are much more realistic.
The new fire system offers a few more options. The first change is that recoil is NOT retroactive. The recoil affects your shots, as you make them, not all at once. This is much more realistic than the previous system.
Second fully automatic weapons now have four modes of fire.
1. Semi Automatic Semi automatic fire is per the normal DC rules. A character can take up to five shots from an SA gun in a single phase. All other standard fire combat rules apply.
2. Full Automatic Spray Fully automatic is when a character is trying to unload a lot of bullets quickly at a target area. This is the only kind of full auto fire a character without small arms skill can use. This system steps back to the original DC rules for automatic fire. A character can fire up to five “bursts” of bullets at a target area or person. Each “burst” contributes the bullets listed under the ROF for the gun used. Each range category beyond short reduced the number of bullets in a “burst” by 2 (4 for 10 ROF weapons). If the recoil goes above the strength of the firing character, then one bullet is subtracted from each “burst” for each point recoil exceeds the strength of the user. Note that now that recoil is not retroactive the first “burst” fired may have all the bullets in it if a character's strength is high enough. Regardless a 3 or 5 ROF can never have less that 1 bullet per “burst” and a 10 ROF can never have less that 2. For each bullet left after recoil roll a d6. If the die is a 6 the bullet hits the primary target. After all bullets on the primary target are resolved, take half the bullets that missed and add all the bullets lost to recoil. Roll a d6 for each of these bullets. Any sixes result in hits on nearby targets in the area around the primary. If full auto is used for suppression fire on an area, roll 1 d6 for each bullet fired. Any sixes are hits on characters moving through the area this turn.
3. Controlled bursts. (“Remember; short, controlled bursts.” – Cpl. Hicks) This is a new mode of fire designed to simulate what automatic weapons can do when properly used. Only people with actually skill in small arms can use this fire method, others have not been trained. A controlled burst is when a group of bullets are fired at a target. Most automatic weapons are capable of using 3 to 5 round bursts. The type of burst a weapon fires is listing in the ROF. This tells how many bullets are fired in a burst. Controlled bursts can only be used at short or medium range, the bullets spread out too much at longer ranges. A controlled burst is fired just like a standard semi automatic shot with all of the same modifiers. A character can take up to five controlled bursts in a phase but each generated the burst rating for recoil. If the shot hits, the target is hit by one bullet. For every two points under the target number a shot hits by, the target is hit by another bullet, up to the total amount of bullets in the burst. Each bullet has a separate damage location rolled. For guns firing 10 round burst, 1 bullet hits for every number below the target number.
4. Aimed Bursts. Aimed bursts are only usable after a phase has been spent aiming or with a laser sight. An aimed burst is just like a controlled burst, except it is treated as an aimed shot. Therefore only the first controlled burst in a phase may count as an aimed burst. After the allowed aimed burst other bursts may be fired as controlled bursts up to a combined total of five bursts for the phase. Aimed bursts may be attempted at long range. In all other ways an aimed burst is the same as a controlled burst.
The following is an example to help clarify.
Roberto is getting his car fixed when a truckload of zombies pulls up. Roberto is well equipped and with a muttered curse whips out his handy HK MP-7. The HK MP-7 has a ROF of 5 and Burst Recoil of 6. Roberto has strength of 8 and a small arms rifle skill of 7 (total asset of 15). The first round he sprays the zombies coming at him. Using the full auto spray he elects to send off 3 sets of bullets in the phase. The first set is unaffected by recoil so contributes 5 rounds, the second loses 4 bullets to a minimum of 1 and so does the last set. (The last set should have lost more but there is a minimum of 1 for five round bursts). Roberto rolls a total of 7 dices and counts all sixes as hits on the primary target. Half of the misses and the recoil bullets are rerolled. On the primary Roberto rolls 2 sixes and hits twice. He then rolls 2 + 4 dice for secondary targets (remember round down). The next phase Roberto decides to finish off the clip with three controlled bursts. Roberto chooses three zombies at short range and fires. These are quick shots so are treated as at long range. Robert needs a 7 or less on the first zombie, a 3 or less on the second and a 1 on the third. (Again he should have no chance but the GM is nice and let him hit if he rolls a one). Roberto rolls a 3, 3,11. The first zombie is hit by 3 bullets, one for hitting at 7, one for two below at 5 and another for two below that at 3. The second zombie is hit with one bullet and the third zombie shambles on to rend Roberto’s brain out. No extra missed bullets are calculated. Later after reloading Roberto has a chance to aim at a lone zombie searching for him. Foolishly the zombie has moved into short range while Roberto is aiming. Roberto decides to make sure and fires two bursts. The first counts as aimed and requires a 15 or less to hit. The second is a controlled burst and requires 3 to hit. Roberto rolls a 3 and a 16. The first burst hits with all five bullets, again one for hitting and one for each two he beat the target by, 12, 10, 8, and 6. (He should have hit gain at 4 but there were only 5 bullets) The second burst missed.
