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Morthrai wrote:I have taken elements from "The Zone" series and dropped them into my DC world. I even wrote up the Iron Cow APC used by the characters in Demonground mag way back. Might have to drag that out of the archives

Rather than derail the book thread I though I'd do a separate post. Found a set of Iron Cow stats on another forum:

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?p=72334

They're about three-quarters of the way down the page - do they match up with yours at all Lee? Armour seems a bit on the weak side. An RPG would go through it like a hot knife through butter.

So Linden, do you frequent that Twilight: 2000 forum or were you looking specifically for the Iron Cow?
I'm a member there but under an alter-ego (so that I could avoid encounters with a member who was condescending towards everyone else's experiences and so overtly patriotic and dismissive of other nations that he's actually jingoistic - I had run-ins with him the past and I didn't want repeat performances).

When I read your post, I was thinking of comparing the two sets of stats for the Iron Cow but I realized that there's no index of the Demonground ezine as far as I'm aware, so I'll have to trawl through all of them until I find it, (or Lee recalls which issue it was in!)
I bring this up because perhaps we need to create an index of Demonground for our use here (and even Protodimension for that matter)?

ReHerakhte wrote:So Linden, do you frequent that Twilight: 2000 forum or were you looking specifically for the Iron Cow?

I only visit them occasionally, and I’m not a member of any.

I’ve got the vague idea of running a STOCS Lite game at some point (possibly a one-off based on the film White Tiger) and I was considering statting up the FV499 as player transport - I wanted to get some comparison values, especially around its speed, defensive measures and electronics. Like yourself I couldn’t track down Lee’s Demonground article but I thought someone might have done a T2000 version so did a bit of googling, and hey presto there it was.

ReHerakhte wrote:So Linden, do you frequent that Twilight: 2000 forum or were you looking specifically for the Iron Cow?
I'm a member there but under an alter-ego (so that I could avoid encounters with a member who was condescending towards everyone else's experiences and so overtly patriotic and dismissive of other nations that he's actually jingoistic - I had run-ins with him the past and I didn't want repeat performances).

When I read your post, I was thinking of comparing the two sets of stats for the Iron Cow but I realized that there's no index of the Demonground ezine as far as I'm aware, so I'll have to trawl through all of them until I find it, (or Lee recalls which issue it was in!)
I bring this up because perhaps we need to create an index of Demonground for our use here (and even Protodimension for that matter)?

I am also a member there. Any resource is good! My alter- ego is easy to guess. Light armor for internal security and civil disturbance could be expanded.

Well, it would seem that one's memory does start to go a bit wonky with age! Not only did I not actually submit the article to Demonground at all, now I can't even find the original file I will search a bit further!

As for the Iron Cow stats given on the forum, checking the old NATO Vehicle Guide shows those armour values to be the same as the standard Warrior APC which would make sense as a base level. If we follow the real-world development of AFVs these days it's going to have been upgraded at the last refit so adding a couple of points is doable. Reactive armour might be considered too costly, but something like the kit used on this British Mastiff would help.

Damn!
But I do know that feeling.
Some years ago I had written a piece for a military vehicle magazine and been slightly vexed when it didn't show up in the mag with no word from the editor and so on.
Only to realize months later that I hadn't actually sent the article...

Morthrai wrote: Reactive armour might be considered too costly, but something like the kit used on this British Mastiff would help.

Hmm...I'm not sure that slat armour would stay attached for long the way Burke in The Zone novels used to drive.

Enjoying the senior moment stories...it comes to us all I suppose.

Linden wrote:Hmm...I'm not sure that slat armour would stay attached for long the way Burke in The Zone novels used to drive.

Takes us neatly back to the FV499's main survivability asset being it's speed, rather than anything to do with reality - not that there's anything wrong with unreality of course

I dunno Lee, that cow looks particularly unappetizing. I know we should get more iron in our diets but that's a bit hard to swallow.*








* All puns intentional, I shall now run away & hide from the collective wrath of the forum

ReHerakhte wrote:I dunno Lee, that cow looks particularly unappetizing. I know we should get more iron in our diets but that's a bit hard to swallow.

Actually... I'm waiting for that cow to be taken over by Animators

ReHerakhte wrote:Actually... I'm waiting for that cow to be taken over by Animators

Would make a great tabloid story seed - we could call it Art Attack!...or something, and set it in Milton Keynes.

Linden wrote:Would make a great tabloid story seed - we could call it Art Attack!...or something, and set it in Milton Keynes.

Yes indeed, let's do it! Also reminds me of this bit of Bill Bailey...

"I went to see Metallica at Milton Keynes Bowl. They were being supported by Marilyn Manson - I love Marilyn. Brian? I love Brian, he's great. But anyway what he used to do to get the crowd going was just chant the name of the place over and over. So we were treated to this magnificent spectacle of this eight-foot freak, eyes different colours, wearing a rubber corset, down on one knee shouting "MILTON KEEEEYNES". Stay with me to the grave, that will. Milton Keynes! Satan's layby!" - Bill Bailey "Part Troll"

Sounds like a plan!
And this is what I enjoy about internet forums for gaming (and this forum particularly) - a group of people from anywhere in the world creating interesting game ideas from one simple thing (like that image of the metal cow).
I might have made the comment about animators possessing "our" iron cow, but because it was a one-off, humorous comment I didn't even stop to think about actually doing it in game and I didn't know about the concrete cows at Milton Keynes so yeah, a good example of brainstorming!

I wonder if Norm can wave his magic computer graphics wand over that image and make it more Dark Conspiracy? Would make for an interesting, if sparse, cover for an issue of PD

Morthrai wrote:
"I went to see Metallica at Milton Keynes Bowl. They were being supported by Marilyn Manson - I love Marilyn. Brian? I love Brian, he's great. But anyway what he used to do to get the crowd going was just chant the name of the place over and over. So we were treated to this magnificent spectacle of this eight-foot freak, eyes different colours, wearing a rubber corset, down on one knee shouting "MILTON KEEEEYNES". Stay with me to the grave, that will. Milton Keynes! Satan's layby!" - Bill Bailey "Part Troll"

I was at that gig. I don't remember Manson/Brian doing that. And I was sober (for once). He's right about Satan's lay-by though.

Perhaps we could call the article "Metal Stampede" after the L7 song?