Should terms be more even in total benefits?

Any and all discussion about Dark Conspiracy, the RPG of modern conspiracy horror
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Should terms be more even?

Yes: Terms should be balanced somehow
2
17%
No: Let people choose what they want
3
25%
Maybe: If they are powergaming, the GM should step in.
7
58%
 
Total votes: 12

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vadersson
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Should terms be more even in total benefits?

Post by vadersson »

Several career terms give very few things while several terms give a lot of skills, money, and contacts. Should an effort be made to even the benefits out so as things are more balanced?

Example:
1 term in the military generally gives a ton of skills from basic training and then the first term package. SEAL officers are the worst offenders and i can not tell you how many of those I have seen. Compare to a Factory worker that gets 4 skills and 2 secondary activies. I have never had a factory worker in a game.

Please share your opinion.
Thanks,
Duncan
mchesebro
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Post by mchesebro »

The GM is responsible for game balance. I was US Army for 4 years, and from my experience, the rules for military training and such are close to the mark. That said, how many ex-SEAL officers are there out there? Not that many compaired to the rest of the ex-military. The issue is one of the GM possible puttiny some professions off limits for game balance if needed. Many of the PC's in my games have one or two terms of military service as grunts, pilots, or marines. Thery are handy ways to learn some needed skills for survival. There have also been a couple of PI's, a cop, a body-guard, a gnome, and a few that started as street rats.
The GM should first encourage players to pick something with some role playing potential. If that doesent work, then place off balancing choices off limits. If the player simply can not be disuaded from playing a gun bunny and is needed at the game table for some reason, bite the bullet and adjust your campaign around it. I have several times made it clear in the game that big guns have there own penaties, some of which have been mentioned elsewhere on this forum.
Sorry for the long post.
Later,
Mark
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Zvezda
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Post by Zvezda »

Totally NO! Terms should not be balanced at all. Occupations differ from each other and so should the terms. I think it is reasonable that an office worker does not have the same experiences as an bank robber. I agree however that the basic training is a bit unbalanced I don’t care too much however.
I like the character generation rules form Twilight 2.2, they prevent the old PCs form becoming too powerful.
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R.A.G.G.
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Post by R.A.G.G. »

The Careers should remain as they are.

It is up the GM, and players, to vary the career terms selected to avoid making "powergaming clones". I ask, well actually require, each player to create character concepts with detailed backstories including Mustering Out - of course I assist in fleshout the stories. Then based on these backstories the players then generate their characters. Here is one example of what I did (this for our first game, we were all new to DC) - after the initial grumbles the game was fantastic.

Since all the players were either from or lived in McMinnville, I had them all generate characters based on there own histories – yes, I had them create themselves. This created eight characters with a wide range of skills; we had ex-military, college students, factory workers, prole, public employee, and etc. (although everyone was a computer expert, go figure).
Kevin GM/DM
Roll'em Again Gaming Group
Oregon Chapter
"In a world of games ... WE are the Gamers"
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Zvezda
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Post by Zvezda »

That's an ideal situation. I guess that is one of the best ways to generate PCs but it does not work for every player.
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Paul Mann III
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Army Strong!

Post by Paul Mann III »

The Military Careers are a bit much, in my experience. Giving Basic Training and 6 points is alot, and only giving the Army 4 points? I think they should all be 4 point careers to balance out the Basic Training. I gets hard to ignore the benefits of a term or two in the military (better Init dice, Init bonus for extra term, more contacts, lots of skills. ect).
"I like President Truman...." -Rorshach-
Fiannaidhe
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Post by Fiannaidhe »

I too am a Military Veteran; 10 Years active duty in the USAF.

As unfair as it seems, yes military background players do deserve all that they get for all the training and experience they receive. However , heres a thought for the GM. Just like the real world not everyone is accepted into the military. If you think a players is power gaming, tell him he was denied entry or got kicked out due to military downsizing. :twisted:
Bob
_____________
" What you have there is what we refer to as a focused, non-terminal, repeating phantasm; Or a Class 5 full roaming vapor. .... Real nasty one too!" ~ Ray Stantz, Ghostbusters
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Paul Mann III
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Post by Paul Mann III »

Fiannaidhe wrote:I too am a Military Veteran; 10 Years active duty in the USAF.

As unfair as it seems, yes military background players do deserve all that they get for all the training and experience they receive. However , heres a thought for the GM. Just like the real world not everyone is accepted into the military. If you think a players is power gaming, tell him he was denied entry or got kicked out due to military downsizing. :twisted:
Just to clarify, I was thrown out of the Army just after my physical and prior to Basic Training. I think "power" gaming is to be expected, to a degree, so perhaps raising the entry requirments for some of the terms, although they seem pretty good already. except of course that once again Army has no requirements and only 4 points, making it so the most common branch of service is hardly ever used. Everyone wants the points from Spec Ops or the USMC....
"I like President Truman...." -Rorshach-
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fenlason
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Post by fenlason »

In the new edition, National Service has been the norm for several years. Who gets drafted? Not the proles off the grid. Neither do the Nomes. So if your character is a mike social class, you have to have extraordinary reasons for not taking a military career - like being a draft dodger or a psychic test subject or something.

As to the skills you get, all the careers have boosted skill points, and the system appears more balanced. The military careers have been redesigned - less regimental.

Norm
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Zvezda
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Post by Zvezda »

Will we stilll be able to use the military careers form former GDW products? And will there be different basic training for non-US citizens?
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fenlason
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Post by fenlason »

The skills themselves are compatible with the older systems, including 1ed and T2K.

The problem would be that the total numbers of skill points per term is less for legacy systems.

The new military careers only use the Armed services (Army, Navy, etc.) to screen for entrance requirements and to limit specialty selections.Within a branch (not service, but specialty type), the skills are the same. E.g. Infantry has the same skills for Marines as it does for the Army.

Regarding foreign militaries, I believe the new system lends itself to customizing. Some countries may not offer all specialties. Available options should be tailored accordingly.

I am trying to get permission to release the chargen rules to the playtest forum. Look for a post there when they're ready.

Norm
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Zvezda
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Post by Zvezda »

Unfortunatly I don't have access to the play testers forum. Neihther have I heard anything from my playtesters application lately.
manodogs
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Terms

Post by manodogs »

I was specifically going to state that the prereqs for military be raised, so that's my 2¢ on that. In one of the systems I am designing, the careers is a system inspired largely by DC (and Warhammer FRPG) and I discovered that, yes, some occupations simply provide more than others, systematically speaking. And this is actually true to IRL - I mean, a lot of people take "slacker" jobs specifically because they don't want to dedicate to them. I did that for years so I'd have more time to work on what I actually wanted to take up as a career.

I absolutely love the concepts of the draft and a world war, etc. I first heard about that over in Yahoo and that draws a lot of the game together, as well as provides a great backdrop for the world - awesome idea, just... I also love the idea that, if you are not military, your history is wrapped-up in why not. Truly great idea.

If you don't release the game, I think you should at least release some of those concepts here or elsewhere, because I would love to include that in my own games.
- [url=http://www.theweirding.net/RPG/DC/]ManoDogs[/url]
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